2. The Wife of Bath's Tale is considered by some critics to indicate that Chaucer may have been a feminist. Why might they believe this? Do you agree? Remember to cite evidence from the text or some other source.
3.Hahn's essay (see critical reader)onThe Wedding of Sir Gawain and Dame Ragnelle identifies the motif of the loathly lady, but arguesit has a different purpose than asserting the feminine. What does he think the function of the story is?
4. In the context of Elizabethan and Jacobean sonnets, how can we define "conceits"?
5. Discuss what you think is the most striking or outrageous example.
6. What does Revard (1997) suggest about the relationship between language, sex, power and transgression in the English Renaissance?
I agree with some critics that Geoffrey Chaucer is a feminist judging by the way "The Wife of Bath's Tale" was written. Back when this was written at the end of the 14th Century, women did not have a prominent role over men back in those days. Women back in the Medieval days were described as "naturally weak, sinful and vain, and they would only have had limited choices of what to do with their lives" (Griffin, 2010).
ReplyDeleteWomen were regarded as inferior to men thus women who wed were just mothers. They weren't rulers of Kingdoms such as Kings etc. Come to think of it, it's amazing Chaucer wrote Bath's Tale in a feminist point of view considering women's rights weren't noticed until the 20th Century when women started to lead lives outside of the kitchen and had the right to vote etc.
In an example in Bath's Tale that shows this is when Sir Gawain (the Knight) finds out what women truly want.
"Women desire to have sovereignty
As well as over her husband as her love,
And to be in mastery above him"
Chaucer showed one of the first examples in literature that maybe women actually want to be more than just "housewives". Why should men be dominant all the time?
We can go even further and say that Sir Gawain's crime of raping the girl may have been left unseen by the Kingdom since he was seen as a "noble" Knight. The King would have thought the young maiden was lying and would not have punished a Knight of Gawain's stature to death in the first place anyway.
Griffin, P. (2010). "Women in the 14th Century." Retrieved 21/03/2012, from http://pam-griffin.suite101.com/women-in-the-14th-century-a196534.
Reference:
DeleteChaucer, Geoffrey. The canterbury Tales, The Wife of Bath's Tale.
Hi Damian
ReplyDeleteI cannot be sure about the feminist angle. The Tale appears to have many connotations, like sexuality, marriages, authority, sovereignity, punishment and reward, among others. She is 'Chaucer's most remarkable character -' (John Welford's Summary and Analysis of the Wife of Bath's Tale), on the pilgramage. One can discern the feminist in lines 1236 and 1237:
"Then have I gotten mastery of you." she said,
"Since I may choose and govern as I please?"
But it is a question.
Textuality, subjectivity and ideas about sexuality are within the Tale as are references to Biblical text and the Catholic Church.
Carter Susan COUPLING THE BEASTLY BRIDE AND THE HUNTER HUNTED: WHAT LIES BEHIND CHAUCER'S WIFE OF BATH'S TALE. The Chaucer Review, Vol 37,No.4,2003 p329.
Question 1
ReplyDeleteIn all three literatures, the Loathly Lady appears to her chosen Knight or King. King Henry is confronted after hunting, killing thr fattest buck, in the hall. The Knight in the Wife of Bath's Tale sees twenty-four women dancing in the forest, is attracted as he is looking for his solution, and the Loathly Lady appears. King Arthur meets her outside his gate, at Inglewood.
All three's features are described; an uglier creature, (line 999 in the Tale), she was the ugliest creature that man ever saw (lines 4 and 5 in King Arthur meets a really ugly woman) and as a grisly ghost or a fiend from hell (lines 23 and 32 in King Henry).
In the initial introductions they are repulsive. Each has a message and a desire to fulfil, marriage and sexual satisfation.
King Henry is asked to remove his clothes before the lady in his bed. He reacts invoking God, but in the final verse, he awakens beside her. The nameless Knight reacts when, after the marriage, he goes to bed with his old and ugly wife and 'great was the woe the knight had in his thought (line 1083).
Sir Gawain is more than willing to marry in his King's service. 'I will wed her at the time you set. I pray you worry no more. Though she be the foulest person ...'.(penultimate verse).
King Arthur praises his Knight. The poem does not give wedding or bedding details in the excerpt.
Each of the other Loathly ladies finds fulfilment and the shape change occurs as the sun rises. The new husbands look with delight at their young and lovely brides.
What is repulsive about women has been accepted, the power of the Kingdoms is secured following the manipulation of the lusty bachelor, the unwed King Henry and Sir Gawain's willing nature to save his King from worry; his bride is a Lady.
Each marries not the beautiful princess, but the most foul female.
Each gives way, gives over his body and finds himself in a new situation. Each Loathly lady gets her way with her chosen male, by differing methods, but with the same results.
References:
Chaucer, Geoffrey. The canterbury Tales, The Wife of Bath's Tale.
Hahn, T, (Ed) (1995) The Wedding of Sir Gawain and Dame Ragnelle.
Steeleye Span, 'King Henry'.
cater, Susan. The Chaucer review, Vol 37, No.4 2003 p 332.
Question 1
ReplyDeleteIn terms of the fabula of the loathly lady, I would agree that the loathy lady herself has remained relatively the same. As you mentioned Lorraine, she's still ugly in all three of the tales lol.
It's Sir Gawain (or the Knight/Hero) character that has been altered in the tales. Sir Gawain was a rapist in "The Wife of Bath's Tale" and not the type of noble Knight you would normally think the "hero" character should be like.
line 888
"By utter force, he took away her maidenhead"
In The Wedding of Sir Gawain and Dame Ragnelle story, Sir Gawain is more of a noble Knight people expect him to be like. He's committed to protect King Arthur and will do anything he asks him to do. So when King Arthur asks him to marry Dame Ragnelle because it will save his life, his reaction was "Is that all? I shall wed her and wed her again". He went on to say "Therefore, I hesitate not To save your life, my lord."
But when the loathly lady asked Sir Gawain's love in The Wife of Bath's Tale, his initial reaction was lines 1067 and 1068 "My love? nay my damnation!" As mentioned before, this Sir Gawain character is less likeable and more of a coward. Not the typical hero character we normally see in stories, movies etc.
Hello, Damian. I can partially agree with the opinion that Geoffrey Chaucer was a feminist regarding his story “The wife of Bath’s tale”. First of all, I would say there are a variety of evidences that come to the conclusion that Chaucer was recalling feminism. For instance, there is a general prologue in spite of the main twenty-four stories in the tales of Canterbury, which describe the background of this pilgrimage in “The wife of Bathe’s tale”(Cooper,1996). Following how Chaucer introduces the wife of Bath, you could find she has been stigmatized as a strikingly unusual woman who has light-hearted, somewhat vulgar and exceptional talkative (Cooper, 1996). Furthermore, her independent economic position makes her to be the most powerful person in her last five marriages and she dare to challenge the medieval tradition thought of female housekeeper and the higher position of males(Yiqing & Jiong,2008). Besides, as you have referred before, females were considered to be of low status at the medieval periods. Therefore, Chaucer’s representative work (the Canterbury tales) emphasized the significance of feminism and also tells us a story that is pregnant with meaning.
DeleteBy the way, I was a bit confused about your explanation that ‘Sir Gawain rape the girl but left the kingdom’, is that event related to feminism?
Cooper, Helen (1996). “The Wife of Bath’s Prologue.” Oxford Guides to Chaucer: The Canterbury Tales. New York: Oxford University Press.
Liu Yiqing & Liu Jiong. A Brief History of English Literature [M]. Beijing: Foreign Language Teaching and Research Press, 2008.
Q1.
DeleteAccording to the three tales in the loathly lady fabula, the Loathly Lady could be symbolised as a challenge for the king and knight. King Henry is antagonized after hunting because he gain victory and in the Wife of Bath's Tale the loathly lady appears while the knight was in his process of solving the problem “What’s women’s most desire”.
I agree with Lorraine that in all three conditions the ladies are described as ugly person. For instance, in the first tale, For though I am ugly and old, (line 1063 in the Tale), Her face was red, her nose running…Her hair clotted in a heap (lines 7 and 15 in the second tale of King Arthur meets a really ugly woman) and a grisly ghost or a fiend from hell…that comes from hell (lines 23 and 32 in King Henry’s tale).
According to Hanh(1995), they are created as disgusting creatures in all three tales and each of them desire marriage from those powerful men(King or knight). However, the approaches which three loathly ladies use are somewhat different. According to the knight’s tale, the Knight got a stiff punishment for his crime of raping a girl and the loathly lady announced that she could save his life by marrying her.
In the Sir Gawain’s story, he was willing to marry the ugly creature since he is the king’s faithful servant. 'I will wed her at the time you set no more… though she is the foulest person ...'(line 116-120).
Each of the other loathly ladies finds fulfilment and the shape change occurs as the sun rises. The new husbands look with delight at their young and lovely brides.
In the Sir Henry story’s context, he is also regarded as natural to handle his king’s trouble.
I agree with Damian that Chaucer was a feminist. There sure is some evidence of female dominating over man in The Wife of Bath’s Tale. I think Chaucer opens a new chapter in literature in “The Wife of Bath's tale” who seems to be a feminist, as a narrator and a main character of the story.
DeleteThere are several evidences in the text that Chaucer was a feminist. It's clearly seen when the queen gets to judge the knight. It may seem the knight has power physically only because he’s a man. The decision of the knight should live or die was left up to the Queen and she had the power to choose what was to be done with him.
Second one appears when his wife gives him to choose to have an ugly, wife but humble and faithful or young, fair wife but unfaithful. But then, the knights answers “For as it pleases you, is enough for me” that he shows his respect for his wife.
Final one is on the line in the text, “women desire to have sovereignty As well over her husband as her love, and to be in mastery above him. This is your greatest desire to have sovereignty, though you kill me”. This line Chaucer’s feminist thoughts and beliefs.
Chaucer, Geoffrey (c. 1390). The Wife of Bath.
DeleteExtarch: Hahn, T. (Ed.). (1995). The Wedding of Sir Gawain and Dame Ragnelle. In sir Gawain: Eleven Romances and Tales. Kalamazoo, Michigan: Medieval Institute Publications
Q1.
ReplyDeleteCite some variations in the Loathly Lady fabula across the three tales in your Reader. Focus on the conditions by which the lady is either beautiful or ugly, and the actions of the knight/king/"hero"...
I also agree with your thinking because these three literature’s tales show similar the Loathly Lady which is described ugly. The wife of bath’s; [Line 999] there can no man imagines an uglier creature. King Arthur meets a really ugly woman; (it shows the firstly in title the woman character is ‘ugly’) [Line 4] She was the ugliest creature. Also [Line 7~22] it described detail woman character as ugly. King Henry described woman character [Line 23] a grisly ghost, [line 31~32] nothing less she seemed to be than a fiend that comes from hell.
However, these three literature’s tales show the loathly lady changed from ugly women to beautiful from the end of tales. But King Arthur meets a really ugly woman is different way with two literature tales because; The wife of bath; [Line 1251] that she so was beautiful, and so young, King Henry; [Line 84] the fairest lady that ever was seen. It shows similar stories which show sexual bedding with ugly ladies and the main men who are knight and king. However, King Arthur tale is different with them. Because his life was in her hand [line 32~33] For your life is in my hand. Only I can prevent your death. Also ugly woman said to him about wedding [line 54~63] You must grant me a knight to wed ….. let me marry Sir Gawain …. Or you are dead …. Or lose your head.” So he was willing to marry with ugly woman; [line 116~120] I will wed her at the time you set …… though she be the foulest person … for you I will not hesitate. This story also can guess about the ugly woman who will become beautifully after got married him. These three tales approved a little different ways for changing women but the results are equal and good.
Reference:
Chaucer, Geoffrey (c. 1390). The Wife of Bath.
Extarch: Hahn, T. (Ed.). (1995). The Wedding of Sir Gawain and Dame Ragnelle. In sir Gawain: Eleven Romances and Tales. Kalamazoo, Michigan: Medieval Institute Publications
Steeleye Span (1972). King Henry. In Below the Salt. US: Shanachie
Question 6
ReplyDeleteThe relationship between language, sex, power and transgression during the English Renaissance is shown by Revard (1997) in his discussion on the women poets, Katherine Phillips and Aphra Behn’s works and the comments by extant male poets and the publication in 1683 Triumphs of Female Wit.
To appraise a woman’s poem, without using amatory such as beauty and love, was to construct an equality of language. Cowley, Revard writes, “reserves ... his greatest praises for Philips virtue.” Lastly comes the ‘wit’, or linguistic ability.
Behn uses capital letters to emphasize the recognition of equality. She praises the male Translator:
“So thou by this Translation dost advance
Our Knowledge from the State of Ignorance,
And equals us to man.”
I note the lower case of man, the sexual message is implicit, and the use of the comma, a subtle pause before the powerful statement.
Revard notes the power of the language, in the male and female poems and publications. The relationships between the educated man of words and the women who can write poetry is grudging, demeaning and granted begrudgingly. The social contract of females who serve and males, who dominate, if reversed, would transgress the perceived acceptable modes. Sex was about courtship and conquest, the power of the female was in her beauty and ‘coyness’.
The poems of Katherine Philips and Aphra Behn, seen and read on their own, demonstrated learning, intellect, and a “wonder of their sex.” Revard states, in his conclusion, that: “Having no Latin or Greek Behn rose as high as a woman might in her age – to be included in a literary Elysium as a companion to Pindar’s translator, Cowley.
Reference:
Revard, S>P> (1997) “Katherine Philips, Aphra Behn, and the Female Pindaric in Representing Women in Renaissance England, edited by Claude J. Summers and Ted-Larry Pebworth. Columbia: University of Missouri Press.
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ReplyDeleteThe most striking example of a "conceit" in the Elizabethan and Jacobean Sonnet is John Dunne's (1572 - 1631) The Flea.
ReplyDeleteThis sonnet explores that a man trying to woo a women simply because a flea has bitten them and their blood has joined together inside the flea as a result of this.
This is explored in lines 3 and 4:
"It suck'd me first, and now sicks thee;
And in this flea, our two bloods mingles bee;
This is further explores later in the sonnet in lines 10 and 11:
On stay, three lives in one flea spare,
Where wee almost, yea more than maryed are.
On a personal note, I find this "conceit" to be ridiculous since fleas pretty much suck the blood of anyone and anything. I've been bitten by fleas many times before, so has my cat and my sister. This does not mean I'm going to marry my sister and my cat just because all of our bloods are inside the same flea!
When the woman kills the flea, the male speaker in the sonnet feels like shes killed all three of them. Herself, Him and the Flea.
Question 4
ReplyDelete"Conceits" can be defined as metaphors that compare opposite things to on another according to the Elizabethan and Jacobean sonnets. Many of them were written during that era which contrasted two things that have nothing in common with one another.
One of the Sonnets that explore this theme is William Shakespeare's "Sonnet CXXX". It is here where he compares the ideal imageries of what can be described as "beautiful" and compares to how his "ugly" partner really looks like.
Lines 1 and 3
1 - My mistress' eyes are nothing like the sun;
3 - If snow be white, why then her breasts are dun;
As expected in society, people in Shakespeare's time were praised by men saying "that their eyes do shine like the sun" (Allen, 2007). Obviously here in this sonnet, he clearly says her eyes are nothing like that.
Back in those days "pale skin would have been sought after" (Allen, 2007) as people with pale skin were regarded to be more beautiful. Some people have suggested that Shakespeare was racist, although having "dun" breasts means she was dirty.
Another "conceit" we can analyse is Edmund Spenser's "Ice and Fire". We all know that fire and ice does not go together and fire is hot and ice is cold. The poem expresses this as love as the man in the poem is fire who is madly hot in love with this woman. The woman is ice as she is cold and does not like the man in return.
This is seen in the first two lines.
1 - My love is like to ice, and I to fire:
2 - How comes it then that this her cold so great
These examples show that "conceits" are comparisons like metaphors using powerful (and sometimes odd) imagery to compare one opposite thing to another. The sonnets here usually use love as the theme as well.
References
Allen, L. (2007) Poetry analysis: 'My Mistress' Eyes are nothing like the Sun,' by William Shakespeare. Retrieved from 20/04/2012 from http://www.helium.com/items/250770-poetry-analysis-sonnet-130-by-william-shakespeare
Question 4
ReplyDeleteAlmost English literatures developed in English Renaissance which was from late 15 century to early 16 century in Elizabeth era (1558-1603) in England. (That period Elizabeth was the Queen in England.) She loved English arts play and poetry. It is true that England has a lot of great and famous artist who are William Shakespeare, Edmund Spencer, and Ben Jonson and so on in English Renaissance.
After Elizabeth era, Jacobean became the King (1603-1625). He also had great artists who were same as Elizabeth era’s artists. He also loved English literatures and succeeded to Elizabethan English arts.
Elizabethan sonnet’s and Jacobean sonnet’s has same as some of features. They were written about love and almost sonnets have 14 lines with rhyme scheme. The sonnets also usually iambic pentameter and consists of three quatrains with a couplet. These features were written in Shakespeare’s sonnet with 154.
The Elizabethan and Jacobean sonnet described ‘conceits’ which define as figurative languages. It has metaphor, simile, personification and imagery in these sonnets. For example, the sonnet Edmund Spenser’s ‘Ice and Fire’ has those three figurative languages.
[Line 1] My love is like to ice, and I to fire – the author used metaphor and simile and personification
He also wrote ‘ice’ and fire that were opposite imagery and it also used personification. I think ice is Spencer’s lover and fire is Spencer himself. It is also included ‘conceit’.
Also Shakespeare’s sonnet XVIII shows ‘conceits’ which are metaphor and imagery.
[Line 1] Shall I compare thee to a summer’s day?
[Line 4] And summer’s lease hath all too short a date
[Line 8] By chance or nature’s changing course untrimm’d
I think the author used metaphor; he expressed his lover’s beauty like a summer
I also think using of metaphor the author can express ‘conceit’ more easily when they used the metaphor.
Reference
Wikipedia.(n.d.). Sonnet. Retrieved, June, 13, 2012 from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sonnet#English_.28Shakespearean.29_sonnet