1. What genres do the following texts belong to?
Voluspa, Volsunga Saga, Beowulf, The Hobbit and Lord of the Rings.
Give some examples from these texts that support your identification (for example: "Voluspa is an example of the _____ genre, as the following references to gods from the poem illustrate: "Hear my words / you holy gods' (l.1) "By Odin's Will I'll speak the ancient lore" (l.3), etc).
2. What are some possible features of residual (or "secondary") orality preserved in Voluspa, according to the criteria Ong (1982) advances?
3. Identify a central incident that happens in at least four of the above texts, and discuss how it is both similar and different in each example (remember to site from the original texts).
4. How did Tolkien draw on the Old Norse and Old English texts in his Hobbit and Lord of the Rings fantasy novels? Provide some concrete examples.
5. Discuss how Tolkien's use of "tradition" (e.g. older literary sources) differs from the techniques and agendas of modernism (see Week 7 in your Reader).
6. What place do the old myths have in the modern world?
7. How does the film Beowulf and Grendel "problematise" the hero-myth of Beowulf ?
8. Discuss what you think any of these texts desire (in the sense of their intention, how they wish to be received, what pleasures they offer).
Question 7
ReplyDeleteIn the film Beowulf and Grendel, Beowulf, the Ruler of Geatland, arrives in Daneland to assist in the destruction of a 'Troll', Grendel. Coming as soldiers to kill, Beowulf becomes involved with the unfolding story of Grendel, and the problem of his motives are questioned. He sees Grendel enacting his revenge, as a father with the 'intuitive women', and comes to admire his fortitude and strength. The film potrays this conscious awareness with dialogue, scenes and facial expressions. The final scene tells the full story; which Beowulf had surmised with the questioning and the realisation of the chosen targets. The problem came within Beowulf.
Whoops, 'intuitive woman'. The film demonstrates that all is not as it seems, using internalisation of Beowulf's dilemma.
DeleteQuestion 1 Genres
Voluspa - a mythological poem, featuring the exploits and actions of Gods, in this case Odin.
'Far-famed Thor, the son of Earth, the son of Odin, goes forth to fight the snake.
Voluspa Saga - epic prose, telling a hero's story, Sigurd.
'So whenas the worm crept over the pits, Sigurd thrust his sword under his left shoulder, so that it samk in up to the hilts;'
Beowulf -Epic Poem, with Beowulf the hero.
'Beowulf, son of Ecgtheow, spoke:
Many a skirmish I survived when I was young
and many times of war: I remember them well.'
The Hobbit Tolkien, J.R.R. A fantasy novel, written for his son and other children. Depicts a hero's (Bilbo Baggins)interiority.
Extract: Shippey,T.(2000) J.R.R. Tolkien: Author of the Century. London, HarperCollins,p314.
'...modern novels of telling you 'what the characters are thinking. Tolkien does this too, in The Hobbit ...'
Lord of The Rings Tolkien, J.R.R. High fantasy novel in which the characters are in a completely different world.
Extract: The Two Towers, p496
'"Look!" said Grandalf. "How fair are the bright eyes in the grass! Evermind they are called, 'simbelmyne' in this land of Men, for they blossom in all seasons of the year, and grow where dead men rest.'"
In the original interpretation of Beowulf, Grendel is seen as nothing more than a mindless, vicious troll who kills and even eats anything in his path. King Hroogar has just constructed Heorot which is a great hall of his people. Each night though, Heorot is attacked by Grendel as he just comes and kills and even eats the soldiers of Hroogar. The original poem does not really give us a reason why Grendel kills all those people as he's a mindless monster. As a result of this, once Beowulf comes in and kills Grendel and his mother, he's hailed as a traditional hero.
DeleteIn Beowulf and Grendel however, the typical hero-myth story is challenged and Beowulf is not seen as a traditional hero in the audience's eye. This is because Grendel is given a story for himself and is given a clear reason why he kills the warriors who reside in Heorot. This is because King Hroogar kills Grendel's father at the beginning of the film. We later learn he only killed his father because he stole a fish from them. As a result of this, we as the audience sympathise with Grendel as he's not the killer beast as depicted in the original poem. Not to mention the film says Grendel only kills people who has done him wrong. He does not fight Beowulf because he did nothing to him nor does he kill any women or children.
Once Beowulf rips Grendel's arm off and eventually kills his mother in the movie, he's still regarded as a hero to his peers, although Beowulf himself and the audience feels Grendel's death and the horrific events could have been prevented if King Hroogar was not selfish enough to kill Grendel's father all those years ago just for a piece of fish. Therefore, Beowulf is not a hero as he just killed a person that was not really the heartless villain of the story.
The story of the hero-myth of Beowulf is centred to the character, Beowulf who was facing and challenging to a tough fights. However in the film Beowulf and Grendel differ to the hero-myth Beowulf as the character Beowulf was reluctant hero who tried to avoid collisions. Also Grendel in the film was not just a monster but ‘Troll’ which kills people for the revenge of his father.
Delete7 How does the film Beowulf and Grendel "problematise" the hero-myth of Beowulf ?
DeleteThe film “Beowulf and Grendal” is based on the epic poem “Beowulf”.
The film has extended the Beowulf as a complete piece. It shows the reason, motive and consequence to us. Compare to Beowulf, this film is more commercialize, also give a modern twist on the old English epic poem. At the beginning of the film, it tells us why Grendal attacks the village, the king and also the motive for Beowulf working against the Grendal, then the consequence comes out later. As a film it has to contain rich background characters run through, in order to build the love and hate coherent and complete film to meet the modern market demand.
The old hero-myth Beowulf, is base on the history and legend or contemporaneous happen at the time. By pass it though orally person by person and generation by generation, it is being affected by people’s imagination. Since it is “hero-myth” so that it is too virtual to read, on the other hand, the film have set the scenes easily acceptable. The Wikipedia described” Beowulf in Old English or is the conventional title of an Old English heroic epic poem…set in Scandinavia, commonly cited as one of the most important works of Anglo-Saxon literature.” (Wikipedia, 2012).
1 What genres do the following texts belong to?
DeleteVoluspa is a mythological poem, for example "Hear my words / you holy gods' (l.1) "By Odin's Will I'll speak the ancient lore" (l.3), etc), feature of volusapa is revolve exploits of God!
Volsunga Saga is a epic prose, for example “now crept worm down to his place of watering…” Morris, W& Magnussun, E.(trans). (1888). The Story of the Volsungs (Vosunga Saga). London: Walter Scott Press,pp.58—62, feature of volusapa is revolve heroes!
Beowulf is an epic poem, for example ” the wide kingdom reverted to Beowulf.” Heaney, S. (Trans). (1999). Beowulf: a new translation. London: Penguin, pp70- 80, feature of Beowulf is revolve heroes!
The Hobbit is a fantasy novel, for example “In a hole in the ground there lived a hobbit”, feature of The Hobbit is revolve interiority!
Lord of the Rings is a high fantasy novel, for example” Three Rings for the elven-kings under the sky” Tolkien , J. R. R. (1954), The Fellowship of the Ring, The Lord of the Rings, Boston: Houghton Mifflin (published 1987), "The Shadow of the Past", the feature of Lord of the Ring is revolve interiority!
Question 6 The place of old myths in the modern world.
ReplyDeleteFrom the tradition of oral storytelling, to the place of visual, electronic quests, the themes of the old myths are retold. In the video game wii, the hero, Mario, faces many challenges of increasing difficulty, to win Princess Peach. This game can be played by 5 year olds and is very popular.
What has changed? The hero, the King, Prince, soldier or citizen, faces obstacles before arrival at the desired destination, solution, or prize. The introduction of the spiritual, a fairy godmother, wise woman, ghostly appearance, gives the word on the methods. In the case of wii, the player has the controls and guides Mario.
The old myths become the new stories in games, films and books, with the same human needs, wants, desires and dilemmas.
1.What genres do the following texts belong to?
Delete-Voluspa: a mythological poem, which consists of god’s behaviours and is well known as the best poem of Poetic Edda. For example, I have selected verses from it:
“ Now Garm howls loud before Gnipahellir,
The fetters will burst and the wolf run free;
Much do I know, and more can see
Of the fate of the gods the mighty in fight.”
-Volsunga saga: epic prose, an Icelandic prose telling the story of Sigurd and Brynhild.
For example, “Now crept the worm down to his place of watering, and the earth shook all about him……but Sigurd neither trembled nor was adrad at the roaring of him. So whenas the worm crept over the pits, Sigurd thrust his sword under his left shoulder, so that it sank in up to the hilts; then up leapt Sigurd from the pit and drew the sword back again unto him, and therewith was his arm all bloody, up to the very shoulder.”
-Beowulf: old English heroic epic poem, which tells the story of how Beowulf become the king of Danes and had a battle with Grendel.
For example: “Beowulf was quickly brought to the chamber:
the winner of fights, the arch-warrior
came first-footing in with his fellow troops
to where the king in his wisdom waited,
still wondering whether Almighty God
would ever turn the tide of his misfortunes.”
-The Hobbit( written by Tolkien, J.R.R.) is a fantasy novel describing a journey of Bilbo Baggins and what he went through in the journey.
-The lord of the Rings( written by Tolkien, J.R.R.) is a high fantasy novel that the author create a completely different world in the book.
Extract: The fellowship of the ring, Chapter 1
“In the Shire, Bilbo Baggins's 111th birthday party is a big deal. Because of the rich and peculiar life he leads, all of the other Hobbits are extremely interested in him. The party is also going to be thrown for his young cousin, Frodo, who is turning 33, the hobbit age of adulthood.”
Q6.
DeleteThe themes and intension of heroic stories are maintained although centuries have pasted. In the modern society, the spirit of traditional poems or epic prose are still exist in different areas…For example, in the learning circumstances, students are always told to practice what they learned and past exams in order to gain higher accomplishments. In this process, students face a variety of challenges of increasing difficulties.
How do the old myths become new stories in the learning environment? The problems which are unsolved and all types of exams could be similar as the appearance of enemies in old myths. However, students keep making progress in order to achieve their desire and needs.
Films are seen and heard. Orality is seen and heard. Following the speech delivery, nothing of it remains to work over. (Ong, W. (1982) Orality and Literacy p10). With film, it can be replayed. Stories can be retold. We know that actors work from a written script, orators worked from a memory. Both interpret as they will, the difference is in the desire. Scripts desire acting ability, verbal storytelling desire a transference of traditions, warnings or survival skills.
DeletePlacing old myths into the learning environment, Doris, is something I would not have thought of. There are 'mountains to climb', ie assessments and learning to attain. Did the old heroes learn anything? Beowulf certainly did.
6. What place do the old myths have in the modern world?
Deletei agree with you !Old-myth sure has it place in the modern world. Many of them have been rewritten into books, filmed as movies or games. Studying these myths is a good way to understand the civilization in the past as well as the extension of the culture. The most interesting part is many of the myth are being effected by heroically imagination while pass through generations to next generations. The spirits itself never change, but the perspective angle has changed, and the way of presentation has changed. Not many people want to study the old English myths; many prefer the simple and plain modern language. In conclusion, if Old-myths want to have it own place in the modern world, it must change formation in order to meet the market demand.
Hello emill
DeleteThe formative change of the old myths to meet the market demand and desire demonstrate hunger for heroes, quests and results. Many genres focus on these, ie crime, children's fantasy heroes, films, TV series. We look for solutions to the posed problems, so that a peace is attained and a new situation.
Shippey. T (2000) J.R.R Tolkien: Author of the Century. London, HarperCollins, p 318 under the headline Tolkien's Legacy:
'It is a relief to turn from hate and fear to love and admiration.'
Myths have been passed only oral storytelling. However the stories changed a little bit when they have been passed like hero stories in modern world’s place. It also changed mediums from oral storytelling to video games, movies, dramas and books and so on. The myths cannot confirm whether that is true or not because the stories from people’s oral. Therefore, the stories can become from normal stories to hero and King’s stories. I think we cannot find the myths’ heroes’ characters and appearances so the books, films and Medias can make more heroically and grandly. Therefore it is true that I think the old myths have in the modern world because we are discussing about it in our class and our blog.
DeleteQuestion 8
ReplyDeleteIf you read the first part of The Hobbit, you will get to know that Bilbo is not the type of character that gets out much. He loves his quiet and peaceful life in The Shire. Bilbo has never left The Shire in his entire life and nor did he want to either. He was comfortable with the way his he was living his life.
"The Baggineses had lived in the neighbourhood of The Hill for time out of mind, and people considered them very respectable, not only because they never has any adventures or anything unexpected" (3)
It wasn't until Gandalf the Wizard came into Bilbo's doorstep that Bilbo's outlook on his life started to change. Gandalf's proposition was to make Bilbo use his thief skills put to the test in an adventure that will take him outside of The Shire as he and 13 dwarves try to steal treasure from the evil Dragon Smaug. It wasn't easy convincing him to go as Bilbo wants Gandalf "to go away" and that he gets "quite uncomfortable" when Gandalf does not move (Gaens, 2002).
At the end of the adventure, Bilbo changes and Gandalf notices this. '"My dear Bilbo!' he said. 'Something is the matter with you! You are not the hobbit that you were'" (284).
Bilbo becomes more independent and confident being during his big adventure. He was no longer the sheltered little being who never left the quiet life in The Shire.
Tolkien himself intended to write the The Hobbit as a children's story as it was written for his son Christopher. Because Bilbo is a thief and stole the ring from Gollum, he may not be the type of hero kids should look up to, but his progression in the story may have some other type of inspiration to its readers. To modern day readers, this could mean we need some sort of excitement in our lives every now and then. People today may be stuck at work or studying all the time that they don't have time to actually enjoy life to its fullest. I feel readers of The Hobbit may feel inspired to go out on a big O.E. or something of that nature. After all, we only live once and it doesn't hurt to take some risks to have a little fun in our lives...
References
Gaens, M. (2002). "Tolkien - The Hobbit - Bilbo´s development and growth of character throughout his adventures in Tolkien´s The Hobbit." 10.3239/9783640053575.
Glenn, Jonathan A. "To Translate a Hero: The Hobbit as Beowulf Retold." PAPA 17 (1991): 13-34
Hi Damian
DeleteWould it be that the ordinary can become extraordinary, given a set of circumstances or challenges. Tne people of Christchurch have demonstrated this in the earthquake recovery. Also slamming/smashing doors and flying off in rages (Tolkien J.R.R. The Hobbit Chapter X1V Fire and Water p233) as Smaug did, is not so unusual for children. They would recognise this response in anger/temper resulting from an instruction or reprimand.
Q8.
DeleteThe lord of the rings series, which had wide influence on people of all ages, are believed to be the one of the bestselling books in the 20th century. If you read the novels or seen the films before, you will realize that Tolkien was not only develop a large number of characters with distinctive personality, but also intended to express the spirit of ‘fighting with the darkness’, which indeed touch the hearts of his audiences.
I agree with Damian’s opinion that Frodo was originally pleased with the quiet life in The Shire. However, it wasn’t until Gandalf suspect the originality of the ring that Bilbo gave to Frodo (Bilbo’s cousin), the Hobbits were still having fun in the warm house. At the end of the journey of destroying the ring, all the Hobbits have went through pain and happiness and they totally changed (Pat, 2011).
The Lord of the rings had created a profound influence on popular culture. For example, according to Judith (2001), in a scene of the film ‘Six Degrees of Separation’, The lord of the Rings book are viewed between characters. Moreover, Tolkien even sold the merchandising rights to an organization and the broadcasting of ‘The lord of the rings’ story even produce a profound of entertaining goods for fans(e.g. posters, toys ,games, videos)(Judith,2001).
The actual strength of the whole sequel is not only Tolkien’s approaches of storytelling, but also the description of the world he imagines. I saw the three films before I completed reading The Two Towers and the Return of the King, since then I have repeated watching both books and films countless times. In my opinion, when people reading the Lord of the Rings they feel as if every place or person has a history and story behind them and you may also feel you are experiencing the adventures yourself! Comparing to the Hobbit, The lord of the rings has more depth and ancient language which are worth to analysis…
Reynolds, Pat. "The Lord of the Rings: The Tale of a Text". The Tolkien Society. http://www.tolkiensociety.org/tolkien/tale.html. Retrieved 5 February 2011.
Shulevitz, Judith (22 April 2001). "Hobbits in Hollywood". The New York Times. http://www.nytimes.com/books/01/04/22/bookend/bookend.html. Retrieved 13 May 2006.
I agree with you Doris. Thanks to Peter Jackson's Lord of the Rings movies, Tolkien's vision and literary work has now been seen by millions of more fans in the 21st Century. I liked the significance of Frodo's journey in LOTR as he overcame lots of adversity in the books/movies and his friend Sam helped him out through all of it as well.
DeleteFrodo much like Bilbo hated the task that was given to him at the start.
Frodo said "I wish the ring had never come to me. I wish none of this had happened."
Gandalf responded: "So do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us. There are other forces at work in this world Frodo, besides the will of evil. Bilbo was meant to find the Ring. In which case, you were also meant to have it. And that is an encouraging thought."
I really liked the quote Gandalf said about "All we have to do decide is what to do with the time that is given to us". We are all born in this world and human beings still don't know the true meaning of Life. Gandalf's quote suggests we should all just decide what we want in our lives before we die. We don't have to know the meaning of life, we can just try and enjoy our lives even if there's immense obstacles in our way.
In this sense, I do feel old myths and literacy work like Lord of the Rings have value in today's society. Frodo could have selfishly kept the ring to himself or been a coward and abandoned the quest to destroy the ring altogether. Even though Frodo nearly wanted the Ring to himself after fighting Gollum, he resisted all temptation save one to use the ring during his journey from Rivendell to Mordor. (Vigh, 2010).
Frodo made the decision that saving his friends and The Shire were more important than the personal gain of obtaining power from the ring.
This is a good moral lesson that future generation can still learn from. As the old saying goes "it's better to help other than it is to help ourselves". Frodo is proff of that.
Reference
Vigh, James. (2010) "Character analysis: Frodo in Lord of the Rings". Retrieved 15/03/2012, from http://www.helium.com/items/1986597-frodo-in-lord-of-the-rings?page=2.
Reynolds, Pat. "The Lord of the Rings: The Tale of a Text". The Tolkien Society. http://www.tolkiensociety.org/tolkien/tale.html. Retrieved 5 February 2011.
ReplyDeleteShulevitz, Judith (22 April 2001). "Hobbits in Hollywood". The New York Times. http://www.nytimes.com/books/01/04/22/bookend/bookend.html. Retrieved 13 May 2006.
I agree with Damain that as narrate in the film “Beowulf and Grendel”, Beowulf was known as a warrior of Sweden and was asked to come to Dane land to prevent the destruction that the troll ‘Grendel’ brings. However, the difference between the film and the myth is that the myth has more description of the origins of Beowulf. According to Munro(1983), Beowulf was the son of Ecgthow, who was seek from the attack of Danes soldiers, the poem also describes the marriage between Ecgthow and the daughter of his master.
ReplyDeleteChadwick, Hector Munro (1983) The Origin of the English Nation, page 294.
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDelete'Tolkien, then, creates an alternative to the heroic hierarchy of thr Northern story.'
ReplyDeleteExtract: Glenn, Jonathan A. (1991)"To Translate a Hero: The Hobbit as Beowulf Retold." PAPA 17: 13 - 34
Hello Boyoung
The echoes of the Christian gospel, as well as The Norse Myths are an integral part of Tolkien's stories by his Professiorial knowledge and his Catholic Christian beliefs. It was a natural extension for him.
Question 1
ReplyDeleteThese literatures genre which are Voluspa, Volsunga Saga, Beowulf and The Hobbit and Lord of the Rings are genre of fantasy with mythology and heroes. The Hobbit and Lord of the Rings is nowadays fictional literature but Voluspa, Volsunga saga and Beowulf are old literature of poem.
Voluspa (The Song of the Volva), Volsunga Saga and Beowulf’s structure show poem. However these poems are different because Voluspa is mythological poem and Volsuga Saga and Beowulf are heroic poem.
Voluspa‘s start line shows “Hear my words, you holy gods”. It shows person believe gods that heard people’s saying.
There have different element with Volsunga Saga and Beowulf which are heroic poem. There two heroic poems sentences show suggestive of hero.
Volusunga Saga shows “Sigurad answered, “Unknown to men is my kin. I am called a noble beast: (2) neither father have I nor mother, and all alone have I fared hither” ” and “A hardy heart urged me on hereto, and a strong … the doing of the deed.”
Beowulf shows “And so the son of Ecgtheow had survived … when he had to come face to face with the dragon” and “Beowufl, son of Ecgthew, spoke: 'Many skirmish I survived when I was young and many times of war : I remember them well”
The novels between The hobbit and Lord of Rings have similar and different element. Both are genre of fantasy and mythological novels that has similar element. However The hobbit is for children fantasy genre that means The hobbit written for children’s eye level. And Lord of Rings is not genre of children fantasy because it has more complicate and difficult sentences.
The hobbit shows ““Which King?” said another with a grim voice. “As like as not…. We have ever known. “”
Lord of the Rings shows “’Edoras those courts… King of the Mark of Rohan…… and the Rohirrim, the Horse-lords…. I counsel you all, until we are com before Theoden’s seat.’”
Reference
DeleteMorris, W. & Magnussun, E. (Trans.). (1888). the Story of the Volsungs (Volsunga Saga). London: Walter Scott Press, pp.58-62.
Terry,P. (trans). (1990, 1966). Poems of the Elder Edda. Philadelphia: University of Pennsylvania Press
Tolien, J.R.R (1997; 1937). The Hobbit, London: HarperCollins.
Tolien, J.R.R (1993; 1954). The Lord of the Rings: The Two towers,London: HarperCollins.
Secondary orality and primary oriality is different as secondary orality is relates to the technology such as prints, radio, television, as ‘a new orality’ whereas primary orality is "a culture totally untouched by any knowledge of writing or print". (Ong, 1982, p.11) Ong described primary orality is the orality of culture with no knowledge of literate culture such as writing or print.
ReplyDeleteReference
Ong, W. J. (1982). Orality and literacy: The technologizing of the word. New York: Methuen
I will list some residual features of primary orality preserved in Voluspa, according to the criteria Ong (1982) advances.
DeleteVoluspa is an example of the Mythological Poem, as the following references to gods from the poem illustrate.
"Hear my words / you holy gods"/"By Odin's Will I'll speak the ancient lore"/“Nothing was there when time began neither sands nor seas nor cooling waves Earth was not yet, nor the high heavens but gaping emptiness, nowhere green”
Beowulf is an example of the Epic poem, as Beowulf appears as hero.
"Beowulf, son of Ecgtheow"/“Beowulf spoke, made a formal boast for the last time:'I risked my life often when I was young. Now I am old”/“Beowulf was quickly brought to the chamber: the winner of fights, the arch-warrior..."
Volsunga Saga is an Epic poem, as it also talks about heroins.
“Unknown to men is my kin. I am called a noble beast”/ “So whenas the worm crept over the pits, Sigurd thrust his sword under his left shoulder, so that it samk in up to the hilts;"
The Hobbit is an example of a fantasy novel as it's easier to read and also held in completly different world.
"The dragon was circling back, flying low, and as he came the moon rose above the eastern shore and silvered his great wings."
“In a hole in the ground there lived a hobbit"
The Lord of the Rings written by Tolkien, J.R.R. is a high fantasy novel that they are settled in authors’ creation of completely different world.
"How fair are the bright eyes in the grass! Evermind they are called, 'simbelmyne' in this land of Men, for they blossom in all seasons of the year, and grow where dead men rest.'"
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDelete